How different would it have been if NZ First wasn't in Government? Shaw said the Government would have been able to move faster in a lot of areas.

"It would have been a more coherent government."

Shaw said the work of the last government showed how MMP could work.

"I have issues with the way NZ First conducted themselves, at times...but ultimately that's not the fault of the system."

The thing the Greens most wanted to get done that didn't happen? The capital gains tax.

Shaw said because Jacinda Ardern had ruled out a capital gains tax, the Greens had come up with the wealth tax proposal.

"The most likely outcome from this election is a Labour-Green government...most voters, when they cast their vote, are mindful of what the shape of that looks like.

"It is not unreasonable to assume what the shape of the next government looks like...the larger party forms the majority of the programme."

Shaw said the Greens had achieved an enormous amount over the last three years. His personal highlight was the zero carbon act.

His party was the party of long-term thinking.

Is tax love? "Tax is what we do to have a civilised society," Shaw responded.

Hosking asked if Shaw misunderstands farmers. The Greens co-leader said he was raised in the city, but his mother came from a farming country.

"But I get that there is a sense of grievance there, if you like. You won't find me being one of those people saying, farmers are bad or wrong...every sector has areas where we need to pull our socks up.

"I understand there's a narrative out there that the Greens hate farmers...it's not true."

It was important to build consensus.

"Farmers want clean rivers...they are the ones most vulnerable to climate change...we all want the same things. The question is, how do we get there."

Hosking asked about Taranaki, as a region where the transition away from fossil fuel industries wasn't going smoothly.

Shaw said it would take time, but there was time: "You want to give yourselves a long runway."

Hosking again asked about MMP, suggesting it didn't work. That was rejected by Shaw, but he agreed with Peters that the media still covered elections like it was first past the post.

Was a co-leader necessary? "For us it really works...we are the only party who are going to defy history and be as strong in the subsequent election as they were the one before...a vote for the Green Party is not a wasted vote."