There has been much discussion around government bureaucracy recently.

The catalyst for discussion was a report from RNZ into Waka Kotahi, the agency charged with leading the Road to Zero road deaths action plan.

The opening paragraph to the report reads, "Four years after Waka Kotahi was slammed for not doing its job keeping roads safe, a core unit of it has been labelled so ineffective it is being pulled apart. The unit's head in an internal report a month ago, said 'We have lost clarity of how we add value, why we are here, what we exist for.'"

Questions have been asked as to just how can things change, and how government departments can justify the billions of taxpayer dollars coming their way.

Former Finance Minister and 'Minister of Everything' Steven Joyce joined Kerre Woodham to discuss.

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