I think what stood out for me yesterday when Chris Hipkins was in the studio with Mike for a couple of hours, was how relaxed Hipkins was.  

As the two hours slipped by, he seemed to get more relaxed, leaning back in his chair more and more, taking it easy. I wondered if the Coke Zero hadn’t kicked in, or maybe he was just tired, or maybe he’s just given up.  

I mean don’t get me wrong, I thought he came across well, I think relaxed is good. But I was interested to hear what he backs about his government, and what he was less proud of. MIQ, the debt still owed to them over that and their handling of how to manage that, he thinks they could’ve done that better or differently.  

As an Aucklander who felt like they got locked down for way too long I can tell you from where I sit, I’d have liked to think he would have felt they could have handled that better. He didn’t mention any regrets around slow procurement of PPE or RAT tests or locking Kiwis out of their own country for so long, or having the borders shut seemingly forever, but he did think they could've managed the costs owed for MIQ better. He still doesn’t know how much money is owed from that, interestingly. But he does back his government’s approach to crime, co-governance, and management of the economy.  

He puts a lot of the criticism of his government’s performance down to international headwinds or global pressures, doesn’t take much responsibility for what their part in it all has been. But when asked if he backed his Foreign Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, he said he did. Now her appointment was odd from the get-go.  

She was a Jacinda appointment that left people scratching their heads, she had no background in foreign affairs whatsoever, she didn’t like travel, she hadn’t held senior roles at cabinet level before... it didn’t make a lot of sense. She also yesterday put her foot in it when she didn’t condemn the attacks on Israel. While other international leaders condemned them, she described it as ‘an outbreak of violence between Israel and Gaza...’ and called for ‘an immediate end to all violence.’  

Now alongside being so embarrassing that the PM and leader of the opposition had to jump in immediately and correct that statement, it also got picked up by overseas media. Sky News Australia reported that she failed to condemn the attack. Nicola Willis, who we had on the show yesterday, said Mahuta’s statement was so weak, that Christopher Luxon had to speak up and condemn the attacks on Israel, followed by the PM.  

So does the PM feel Mahuta is out of her depth as Foreign Minister or does he support her? Well he told Mike yesterday he supports her and thinks she’s doing a great job, although he said he thought her words ‘could have been stronger’. But here’s the weird thing, she didn’t even run that statement past him, they didn’t even talk before it went out. Hence he had to put out another one straight after it. But he backs her on the international stage, said he has absolute confidence in her. Which I think helps explain why his party is so often accused of not reading the room.  

If you think that’s an acceptable offering from your foreign minister, and you don't even want to pick up a phone to each other beforehand, then you’re probably not aware of how low the bar has sunk.