Public Service Minister Judith Collins wants people to stop “putting labels” on others or presuming someone is appointed to public service roles for diversity reasons “when they’re actually appointed on merits”.
It comes as New Zealand First attempts to introduce legislation that would remove “diversity, equity and inclusion” (DEI) regulations from the public service. The Public Service Act includes several conditions for diversity to be considered during appointments for department roles.
Asked on Tuesday morning for his thoughts on NZ First’s Member’s Bill – which still needs to be picked from Parliament’s ballot before being debated - Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said the Government had someone “who’s definitely not woke in Judith Collins as our Public Service Minister”.
“We’ve got a rewrite on the Public Service Act coming. We want to change quite a few things on that and look at that piece of legislation, and we’ll certainly look at the bill,” Luxon said.
“When we took the keys to the place, it was pretty woke. It is entirely appropriate we look at what else we can do to make sure the public service delivers.”
Asked what was “woke”, Luxon referenced the previous Government’s “Wellbeing Budgets” and targets to reduce prisoner numbers. He wouldn’t, however, give an example of where someone had been appointed for diversity reasons rather than based on merit.
“There’s incredibly talented people in the public service. We need to make sure we’re developing them the right way and they’re getting opportunities based off merit.”
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says Judith Collins isn't woke. NZME photograph by Mark Mitchell.
Collins said: “I am the least woke person, possibly because I’m already well awake”.
“I think the public service reforms we have got coming will be heartily rejoiced about by many in the public service as well as the wider public,” she said.
But her view was that people “work really hard” and “really do need to be looked at as humans, not just as putting labels on people”.
“I think it’s always the best people for the job, and treating people with respect is what I think people need. People want respect, they don’t want labels.”
Collins also made the point it was “important to presume that the people who have been appointed have been appointed for their merits”.
“It’s sometimes easy, and you’re seeing this all around the place, that when something goes wrong and it’s a person who might not meet what someone else thinks someone should look like, whether it’s a ship captain or something else, [people] go straight down that path of presuming someone’s appointed for some DEI reason when they’re actually appointed on merits.”
Collins is referencing the case of HMNZS Manawanui Commander Yvonne Gray. Following that ship sinking off the Samoan coast, Gray faced what Collins called “deeply misogynistic” comments from “armchair admirals”.
“The one thing we know did not cause [the sinking] was the gender of the ship’s captain,” Collins, also the Defence Minister, said in October. “I’m appalled to hear our women in uniform are being abused in the street because of this incident.”
A report later found the crew of the vessel didn’t realise the Manawanui remained on autopilot, resulting in it maintaining a course towards land, eventually grounding.
Collins on Tuesday emphasised that people should “get rid of the labels” and “get back to treating everybody with respect and fairness”. She said NZ First’s bill would go to caucus for consideration.
Asked if she believed in unconscious bias, she responded: “I do actually. I have certainly studied it before.” It was part of her Leadership Decision-Making study at Harvard Kennedy School in June 2013.
Public Service Minister Judith Collins wants people to stop "putting labels" on others. Photo / Mark Mitchell
Labour leader Chris Hipkins last week said NZ First’s bill was “ridiculous” and repeated on Tuesday that having diversity regulations in the act meant being more proactive about developing talent.
“I think the National Party have previously had a track record of trying to get more diversity into our public sector workforce and have a public sector workforce that more represents the New Zealand population. That’s not saying that people aren’t appointed based on merit, they are.”
DEI commonly refers to policies or frameworks to ensure the inclusion of individuals and communities with varying characteristics or from different demographics.
Diversity and inclusion are currently described as “essential” parts of the public service by the Public Service Commission (PSC), which has its own DEI plan and regularly reports on progress against DEI activities.
In a statement last week, NZ First leader Winston Peters said his party’s bill “would put an end to the woke left-wing social engineering and diversity targets in the public sector”.
“New Zealand is a country founded on meritocracy, not on some mind-numbingly stupid ideology.”
The specific changes the legislation would make include removing aspects of the Public Service Act 2020 that require the Public Service Commissioner to promote a diverse workforce.
While Peters has said his party has previously campaigned against these elements, NZ First supported the Public Service Act 2020 when it was previously in government with Labour.
The move follows actions by Donald Trump’s administration to roll back DEI policies across the US Government. One of the first executive orders the President signed was to terminate DEI anti-discrimination rules in the federal workforce.
The Public Service Commission (PSC) said in an update last month that DEI was about “reflecting and valuing the communities that Te Kawa Mataaho/Public Service Commission is here to serve, to build trust and confidence and improve services and outcomes for New Zealanders”.
“When we attract, retain, recognise, value and develop the skills and experiences of people across all dimensions of diversity (eg gender, ethnicity, disability, rainbow, age), there are multiple benefits.”
The PSC said those benefits included greater diversity of thought, being better equipped to engage with different stakeholders, and lower gender and ethnic pay gaps.
Jamie Ensor is a political reporter in the NZ Herald Press Gallery team based at Parliament. He was previously a TV reporter and digital producer in the Newshub Press Gallery office.
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