Ngāti Kahungunu’s chairman has invited speaker Julian Batchelor to have an “open conversation” with him as his 2023 Stop Co-Governance tour looks to return to Hawke’s Bay.

An earlier event in Havelock North was cancelled in May when Ngāti Kahungunu chairman Bayden Barber sent an open letter urging the venue not to host.

Ngāti Kahungunu chairman Bayden Barber has invited controversial speaker Julian Batchelor for an "open discussion" about co-governance. Photo graphic / NZME, Warren Buckland and Peter de Graaf

The tour has already experienced controversy across the country, with protests outside venues and some people being denied entry.

Batchelor told an audience in Invercargill he had received calls from people wanting to arm themselves in response to co-governance, a claim that police said had no substance.

Batchelor confirmed to Hawke’s Bay Today that he intends to come to Havelock North and Napier in July, and originally had plans to appear in Ongaonga too, but venues have not yet been finalised.

Barber said last week that he had already made contact with potential venues in Napier and Ongaonga about the tour and had been successful in dissuading two from hosting Batchelor.

He said Ngāti Kahungunu had sent a letter to another prospective venue for the tour in Havelock North on Monday morning.

Batchelor said he wasn’t surprised that Ngāti Kahungunu was speaking to venues, but he believed free speech was important for everyone.

“We wouldn’t come on to a marae and try to stop their meetings,” he said.

“If they want to have meetings about what is good about co-governance straight after we’ve had our meetings in the same building, I’d say go for it, and we won’t interrupt their meetings.”

Barber said he believed Batchelor’s movement amplified a “hateful rhetoric” towards Māori and was damaging to relationships within communities.

Barber said neither he nor Batchelor had approached one another directly to speak about co-governance, but he was open to the possibility.

“When you come to Ngāti Kahungunu, come in through the waharoa, the front gate, and we can have an open dialogue. My door is always open for an open conversation about co-governance, about working relationships, about moving communities forward,” Barber said.

“Nau mai, haere mai.”

Batchelor said he would agree to an open discussion about co-governance with Barber “only if it’s live” and on a specific media channel.

He denied Barber’s accusations of hateful rhetoric or racism, challenging critics to find examples.

He said his claims that people were arming themselves were not a sign that his movement was encouraging racial violence, but were instead a response to Government policies.

“The reports about people getting guns is not a response to my meetings, it is people already stirred up about the situation in New Zealand,” he said.

“I am certainly somebody who does not advocate any violence whatsoever.”

He said he was not specifically excluding Māori from his meetings, only “activists”, and there was a guest list that told them who was allowed inside.

“They can object to what I am saying somewhere else, not inside my meeting. It is a private meeting.”

Barber was critical of the closed-door nature of the pro-free speech meetings.

“If he is so passionate about his message, it should be put to a public forum and then we can have that discussion.”

James Pocock joined Hawke’s Bay Today in 2021 and writes breaking news and features, with a focus on environment, local government and post-cyclone issues in the region. He has a keen interest in finding the bigger picture in research and making it more accessible to audiences. He lives in Napier. [email protected]